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Marijuana Lounges? Yes, But Let’s Have Our Own Places

  • by Keith Stroup, NORML Legal Counsel June 29, 2015

    6_8_NORMLK.StroupPortrait_zWithout doubt, it is important that we begin to move forward with the legalization of lounges and social clubs that permit marijuana smokers to gather and enjoy their favorite strains. Marijuana smoking is a social activity, and most smokers would like the option of dropping by a local marijuana-friendly venue, to relax with friends and like-minded colleagues.

    Currently, none of the four states that have fully legalized marijuana allow for this option. Smoking in a public venue is prohibited, and the authorities have taken a needlessly restrictive view of what is a public place, refusing, for example, to permit someone to lease a private venue and operate a private, members-only club where marijuana could be enjoyed. There is no public-policy or public-health basis for being so restrictive

    As we move forward, it is important that we not permit ourselves to get shoe-horned into some system that suggests we are second-class citizens, simply because we enjoy smoking marijuana, and that would effectively keep us in the closet. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the responsible use of marijuana by adults, and there is no reason why we should not be permitted to enjoy marijuana in a lounge or social club with friends.

    Smokers’ clubs have in fact surfaced in all of the legalization states, where those in the know can meet and share good weed, but they are forced to operate on the fringes, as part of a “gray market,” and several have already been closed by the authorities. I had the opportunity to visit a “smoke-easy” in Denver when I was in town for the 4/20 Cannabis Cup, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience, but was saddened to learn the club had been raided and closed the following day. Gray market clubs are clearly not the long-term answer to this problem.

    In Seattle, City Attorney Pete Holmes, a strong advocate for legalizing marijuana, has recently given a boost to this issue by releasing a 10-page report calling for the licensing of marijuana-friendly lounges. “Single family homeowners have a legal place to consume marijuana,” Holmes said, “but others however, such as out-of-town visitors, the homeless, and renters and condominium owners whose buildings do not permit marijuana use, have fewer options. You can enforce the law much better if you, at the same time, provide an outlet for that demand.” No action has yet resulted in Seattle to permit marijuana lounges, but the topic is now front and center for consideration by elected officials.

    So I was pleased to learn a few days ago that an effort is underway to qualify an initiative for the Denver ballot this November to remove some of those barriers, and to legalize marijuana-friendly clubs and lounges. The proposal would permit existing alcohol bars and clubs to permit those 21 and older to consume marijuana in designated areas; vaporizing and edibles if indoors, and smoking if outdoors and out of public view.

    Let’s Keep Our Distance from Alcohol

    My concern with this specific proposal to legalize marijuana lounges is that it would allow marijuana smoking in venues that are also licensed to sell alcohol. I would urge a model that allows for the licensing of marijuana-friendly lounges, but keep those separate from existing alcohol bars and clubs. I am not making a moral judgement; I personally enjoy both drugs, and when I am home in the evenings, I frequently pour myself a glass of wine and roll a joint. But I am at home in a safe environment, and not putting anyone at any risk.

    The two drugs, when used together, are synergistic, and the effect of combining the two causes far greater short-term impairment than either drug by itself, raising legitimate questions of public safety if alcohol bars and clubs were also marijuana-friendly. It would require the bar tender to be far more careful about “cutting-off” anyone who appeared to be getting drunk, and their track-record in that regard is not reassuring.

    In addition, alcohol is a drug that causes many drinkers, at some point, to become aggressive and confrontational, resulting in bar fights and other unruly and repulsive behavior on a regular basis. Marijuana, on the other hand, causes most users to feel relaxed and peaceful, and certainly not confrontational. That distinction is one that is both relevant and helpful politically, and we should strive culturally to maintain that advantage. Were we to establish a system in which both drugs were sold in the same venues, we would likely end-up being judged (by the 84 percent of the public who do not currently smoke marijuana) by the worst behavior caused by alcohol, including it’s impact on safe driving skills, and that is a needless political burden to carry.

    Interestingly, Colorado state Representative Jonathan Singer (D-Longmont), a strong supporter of legalized marijuana, has previously floated ideas involving cannabis-only clubs, such as those that operate in Amsterdam, but those would be alcohol-free venues, avoiding the public safety and political issues discussed above. The latest proposal being advanced for Denver fails to maintain that distinction.

    I recognize that even if marijuana lounges were free of alcohol, there is nothing that would keep an individual from stopping at an alcohol bar, for example, for an hour, before then leaving for a marijuana lounge. No system can avoid all risks, and in the end we must rely on the common sense of most marijuana smokers to avoid dangerous and abusive practices. But we need not establish a system that creates those opportunities and invites those problems.

    A recent poll released by a Washington, DC group called the Third Way found that roughly one-third of the public remain opposed to marijuana legalization; one third remain strongly in favor of legalization; and the remaining third – dubbed “the marijuana middle” – now oppose prohibition, and support full legalization, but they are not pro-pot. Rather they recognize that prohibition has caused more problems than the drug it attempts to prohibit. And important for this discussion, only 36 percent of the survey respondents viewed recreational marijuana smokers favorably; 54 percent have an unfavorable impression of those of us who smoke recreationally.

    That underscores the fragile nature of the coalition that has made it possible for us to move legalization forward in this country, and the need to move cautiously as we ask for additional rights under these new laws. We must be sensitive to the legitimate concerns of non-smokers, in order to maintain our majority for full legalization, and I fear this latest proposal coming out of Denver puts a big political bulls-eye right on our backs.

    I would urge those proposing this change to consider amending their initial proposal to allow for marijuana-only lounges and clubs in Denver, but take a lead from Amsterdam and do not permit marijuana to be smoked in alcohol clubs, or alcohol to be consumed in marijuana clubs. That would provide us smokers with what we need — the opportunity to socialize with other smokers — without the additional risks, both political and real, of mixing the two drugs.

    56 Responses to “Marijuana Lounges? Yes, But Let’s Have Our Own Places”

    1. Derek says:

      Maybe I am alone in this… But I would rather see a “Smoker’s Corner” in places like hotels or maybe even a mall than lounges. Alcohol is much more social to me, as it tends to decrease my social anxiety, whereas marijuana tends to do the opposite. I don’t want to meet strangers while smoking. I would rather hang out with friends, take a hike, maybe go see a movie. Also, it is much easier to spend five minutes smoking every three or four hours, whereas if I want a buzz from alcohol, I end up nursing a beer every twenty minutes for a few hours.

    2. Muraco says:

      We just outlawed pot clubs thanks to the twit Republican Sen Rivers

    3. Muraco says:

      Washington State courtesy of Sen. Ann Rivers banned pot clubs.. we treat marijuana as plutonium and taxes out here…

    4. Tom McCain says:

      Great editorial. Well thought out and effectively presented. As a NORML member I support your evaluation of the situation. As a retired cop I have first hand knowledge of the dangers of mixing the two drugs. Every occasionally I’ll drink a “Miller Pony” while enjoying a toke, but I never leave the house. I can honestly say that my weed use has cut down on my alcohol consumption and I have been off 30mgs a day of hydrocodone, which I took for 5 years, legally prescribed, for about 8 months now.

      While it would be great to have a “smoker’s lounge”, before that can be accomplished a definite “legal blood/marijuana standard” for DUI of marijuana needs to be established. Otherwise the cops will just sit and wait for someone to eave the lounge, since ANY amount in the system currently constitutes “impairment”.

      Let’s face it … THC is a drug. I feel that its legalization for recreational use should be controlled just as alcohol and tobacco are (yep, nicotine is a drug too). Age limits for purchase and consumption should be established, just as with alcohol and tobacco.

      Public safety should be in the forefront of our thinking on this matter, right up there alongside our Civil Liberties approach.

      Actually, since studies have now shown that the human brain does not fully develop until around age 25, I think we should raise the age limit for alcohol purchase and consumption. I know there are a bunch of folks out there reading this and saying “screw that”, but it’s just my opinion. The LEGAL age is immaterial anyway. There will always be a black market for marijuana. Those who cannot get it legally will get it some other way, just as they do with alcohol and tobacco. Why? ‘Cause folks gonna do what folks gonna do” and a law prohibiting a non-violent personal choice is reprehensible to most folks.

      Once again, thanks for this article. More importantly, thanks for the work that NORML has done over the past 40 some odd years. The fruits of their labor are beginning to be seen, though it’s been a long time coming. There is a significant “sea change” in America regarding marijuana, and NORML has been the leader in changing that tide.

      Sincerely,

      Tom McCain
      Retired AF MSgt
      Retired Chief Deputy
      Executive Director, Spartacus Legal Foundation
      Member of the LEAP Speaker’s Bureau
      Marijuana Legalization Activist
      Law Enforcement Goad
      Curmudgeon at Large

    5. Don E. says:

      According to a recent study at the University of Iowa, using marijuana and alcohol together has an additive effect, not synergistic. Still, your idea to keep alcohol and marijuana lounges separate is sensible.
      http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2015/06/29/264214.htm

      A fundamental issue to address in all these regulation schemes is the apparent persistence of the belief among legislators that marijuana is as bad or worse than alcohol and tobacco. In reality, it is much less harmful and there’s no reason it shouldn’t be available to adults at reasonable cost at every corner market along with the alcohol and tobacco products.

      I wonder if future legislation proposals could include a preamble…”Whereas marijuana is non-toxic and much less harmful than alcohol or tobacco, the regulations, taxes and fees imposed shall be less restrictive than those imposed on alcohol and tobacco products.”

    6. Kristyl says:

      Marijuanna should be legal wherever alcohol is. Alcohol can make people feel invincible and often times this leads to fighting and arguing. If people were allowed to smoke some marijuanna after they had a few drinks in a bar and felt themselves getting angry, a couple hits off a joint would do the trick. I guess some people can’t mix the two and function, but for me and many others I’m sure the world is a safer place when my alcohol buzz is diluted with marijuanna.

    7. Miles says:

      Great article Keith!

      Personally, I wouldn’t be interested in attending such a club since I don’t like smoke; especially other peoples! My choice of consumption is to use a vaporizer. I have the Herbalizer and it is fantastic and I’d highly recommend it.

      That said, I absolutely believe that there should be clubs and establishments that allow people to consume cannabis if they so choose. Unlike the Republican party, I believe in freedom :)

    8. BIGNEWTECH says:

      O.K Did anyone see this… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCfJmM-m3J0 Senator Cory Booker vs. Kevin Sabet – The Great Cannabis Debate You all need to watch…
      Also the ONLY company that has a LICENSE to STUDY MARIJUANA.. In The U.S.A. PMCB PharmaCyte Biotech

      PharmaCyte Biotech ( PMCB is examining ways to exploit the benefits of Cell-in-a-Box® technology in optimizing the anticancer effectiveness of cannabinoids, while minimizing or outright eliminating the debilitating side effects usually associated with cancer treatments. This provides PharmaCyte Biotech ( PMCB ) the rare opportunity to develop “green” approaches to fighting deadly diseases, such as cancer of the pancreas, brain and breast, which affect hundreds of thousands of individuals worldwide every year.

    9. Joel: the other Joel says:

      Marijuana Lounges sounds great but I probably won’t go to any of them. I will just be happy that they legally exist to help people share their views and understand each other by having a joint meeting.

    10. Daniel Palos says:

      Some on the left believe we could be lowering our Tax burden and engendering a micro-boom in the HVAC sector that may benefit the tobacco industry.

      I believe we merely need fixed Standards regarding air quality within smoking establishments.

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